(FURTHER UPDATED: Boy, check out McCain’s shenanigans in my post here. And all the facts are in an email, so it has to be true.)
(UPDATED: Snopes is now using the video I linked to last night to demonstrate that this email is one of many such attempts to discredit a candidate’s patriotism. Snopes also includes purported (I have no idea if they’re true or not) communications from other troops that paint an entirely different picture of Obama than the one in Porter’s email.)
The latest incarnation of the chain email of lies against Obama is one purportedly from a Captain Jeffrey S. Porter. Just so I’m not accused of selective editing, here’s the entire email:
Hello everyone,
As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan for about an hour on his visit to ‘The War Zone’. I wanted to share with you what happened. He got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area to
meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at Bagram. As the Soldiers were lined up to shake his hand he blew them off and didn’t say a word as he went into the conference room to meet the General. As he finished, the vehicles took him to the ClamShell (pretty much a big top tent that military personnel can play basketball or work out in with weights) so he could take his publicity pictures playing basketball. He again shunned the opportunity to talk to Soldiers to thank them for their service. So really he was just here to make a showing for the American’s back home
that he is their candidate for President. I think that if you are going to make an effort to come all the way over here you would thank those that are providing the freedom that they are providing for you.I swear we got more thanks from the NBA Basketball Players or the Dallas Cowboy Cheer leaders than from Senator, who wants to be the President of the United States . I just don’t understand how anyone would want him to be our Commander-and-Chief. It was almost that he was scared to be around those that provide the freedom for him and our great country.
If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry but I wanted you all to know what kind of caliber of person he really is. What you see in the news is all fake.
In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. Porter
Battle Captain
TF Wasatch
American Soldier
I can understand the notion that this is one man’s opinion, but here’s the problem. This thing is spreading like wildfire. And here’s the bigger problem: it’s not true. At best, it’s a misconception. Check out this video (it’s on the right side of the web page).
Now, unless those are bushes and trees (camouflage) interacting with Obama, the video clearly shows him talking with the lower ranking soldiers, eating breakfast with rank and file soldiers, and note that the gym is filled with soldiers. Also, note that after he makes his basketball shot, he takes a microphone so he can talk with those soldiers. Further, this video was shot by the Department of Defense, so no one can claim this is Obama election spin. Captain Porter may have seen a snippet of Obama’s trip and not been impressed, but this video makes clear that Obama was not haughty, was not aloof, and that he DID meet with the rank and file members of our armed forces. He sure wasn’t “scared” of them.
I’ve posted before that you can be for McCain all day long, but be for him based on the facts — not lies or misconceptions.
Something’s not right here. This is a “new” email, but already there are three different versions of it, one where Porter is in the Army, one in the USAF, and one the Marines.
I looked into this during the day. The “Marines” one was NOT on the Net until this evening.
Why would someone anti-obama post this but then change it TO MAKE IT LESS BELIEVABLE??
I think this is a setup.
Captain in the Marine Corps is officially abbreviated as “Capt” No captain in the Marine Corps will abbreviate his signature line as CPT. SecNavInst 5216.5D
Retired CWO4 USMC
Best way to respond to these emails I have found is to simply reply “I’m voting for Obama.”
I find that I’m getting less and less of this stuff.
I wonder if CPT Porter was with Obama from the time he stepped off the plane until the time he shot the basketball? If so, what’s a “battle captain” doing following around candidates and press all day? Wouldn’t that job usually go to someone like, “journalist captain” or “public relations captain” or possibly even “MP captain”? Because if he wasn’t with him that whole time, it would tend to discredit his account wouldn’t it?
I wonder if CPT Porter has gotten his share of Bill Gates’ money yet?
Mike and Dave O. — I don’t think that the type of people who would spread half-truths, misleading statements, etc., think as deeply as y’all have. I appreciate your pointing out the errors in the chain email though.
TB — I can’t help myself. Further, it only took me 3 minutes of Google time to find the Department of Defense video showing Obama constantly with troops around him. Then it took another 15 minutes to type the post. Considering that the 2000 and 2004 elections came down to a few thousand votes in Florida and Ohio respectively, I figure any debunking I can do might help………or not.
Wake up these are not lies. He is a better actor than Regan and he was a real actor. I pray that enough people will wake up and see what this idiot really is. He even does not want to drill off shore and that is being a enemy of the USA
I with you Theodoe. I can’t believe how many people is going to vote for him and he has doesn’t have enough experience to run for President. If he gets it, our taxes are going to sore and heaven help us on decision he will make. We really don’t have anyone to vote for this year but I sure don’t want Obama for President. Peopel are not using their heads. They are star struck and trying to prove they are not against having a black man as president. Myself I look for what they have accomplished, what their goals are, are they for actually improving our Goverment and this Country. I can just imagine what shape our Country will be in and as screwed up as our Congress is and then have Obama as president with no experience. Lord help us.
Theodore, what are not lies? That Obama didn’t actually snub the troops like the alleged emailer claimed? Well, the Department of Defense video sure seems to suggest otherwise. As far as it being treasonous to be against offshore drilling, I guess you should go ahead and hang most of the Republicans and Democrats because it wasn’t until the last couple of weeks that Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore drilling and at no time while the Republicans controlled the House and/or the Senate did they lift the congressional prohibition against it. Are you ok with executing all those folks?
Betsy, respectfully, the experience argument doesn’t go very far. What would make one experienced enough? Secondly, unless you’re in the upper tax bracket, your taxes are going to decrease under Obama. But I do agree with you that we need the Lord to help us. I’m probably just invoking His interdiction for a different reason than you.
Do you know what I love?
That people like Theodore and betsy who, by the brilliant will of this great nation and the amazing foresight of its forefathers, had the same access to an absolutely free K-12 education as Obama (an idiot in Theodore’s estimation) and the rest of we Americans cannot construct a grammatically correct sentence or spell words correctly.
How can anyone give value to the opinions of an individual who is either not smart enough or careless enough to spell even ‘people’, ‘government’, or ‘soar’ correctly?
I pity you, Betsy. I really hope for Obama as president so at least your descendants can have a better chance at eloquence than you.
I heard an opinion a few days back from a friend… that Bush won, TWICE, because he had a decisive stand, whereas the opposition was more ambiguous on what they wanted to do …
I think Obama will win this time anyway, because he too seems to have a clear stand; I suppose people like their leaders to have a definite direction, be it the right or the wrong
Mud will be slung, Obama is no saint and neither is McCain :) … THAT would be unrealistic to expect :( …
…. merely opinion, not to be mistaken for fact in a highly charged debate :(
Also, thank you, supercynic.
What has been most overlooked in this whole CPT Jeffrey Porter email imbroglio, if it is true, is his insistence that the armed forces ‘provide’ freedom to us Americans.
Revolutionaries Jefferson, Madison, & Franklin provided freedom to us.
Lincoln, elected by the people, provided freedom to us.
Lyndon Johnson & Nixon, also elected by the people, provided freedom to us.
The Bill of Rights and the ability to amend those Bill of Rights as needed provided freedom to us.
The Armed Forces protect our freedom.
There is a difference. The government derives its existence from the people, not the other way around. This Porter, by virtue of his service to this nation, needs to remember that.
I don’t pay attention, nor do most people, to these chain e-mails. My decision to not vote for Obama has nothing to do with chain e-mails, but rather his positions on issues near and dear to me.
God bless the brave men and women of our Armed Forces for “protecting” our freedom.
Obama will lose…people are fickle..and adulations of today become the jeers of tomorrow..
people see the media’s groveling to him and its turning them off..
his misstatements and past associations are unworthy of anyone who would aspire to the office of pres…
democrats spitting on our vets…people saw and remember
http://tinyurl.com/5s4m78
“the closest experience Obama has to bombs
and military is his good friend William Ayres..a terrorist that
bombed Washington DC police stations.”
democrats spitting on our vets
see from 6 minutes on
I certainly agree with most of the comments. It seems that these Internet rumors filled with lies about Obama are being spread even by folks that we once considered upright and righteous people.
Mook, I think where you said, “…and the rest of we Americans cannot construct…” should be”…and the rest of us Americans cannot construct…” The subject of the clause is “rest” and “of us Americans” is an adjective phrase modifying “rest.”
Of course, it’s been about fifty years since I sat in an English class, and my grammar may be slipping somewhat.
Mook,
You criticize Theodore for grammatical inaccuracies and you say this:
“the rest of we Americans”.
Looks like Theodore is the grammarian compared to your inane ignorance of the English language . . .
The original email as posted at Blackfive seems legit. The issues with the Capt. vs. Cpt. were a result of Matt at Blackfive altering info to protect his sources. The E-mail versions have some odd alterations, perhaps deliberately so to fog the issue?
The problem with your video link as a refutation of the letter is that none of that video is from Bagram. It’s all from Iraq. Notice when he’s commenting on his breakfast that he’s the only one eating. Also, when people are lined up, it’s the dog-and-pony show- you have to be there. Now, it does show him glad handing and speaking to the troops, but only briefly, but I’ll grant it as proof that he did not blow off all the troops. Fair enough. That doesn’t make the Bagram e-mail illegitimate. Matt at Blackfive now has up another, corroborating letter from another person based at Bagram, with more background.
Perhaps too many incidences that happen to be founded have propelled the rumors about Obama in Afghanistan. Such as his refusal to hold his hand over his heart and say the pledge. Or when he said we should attack Pakistan(our Alllie) and Talk with Iran(our enemy) and the fact that he is strongly supported by the same people who spit on our troops coming home from Vietnam. At any rate these FACTS alone should scare the hell out of any red-blooded American.
I guess if you believe you can get rich off forwarding micro softs e-mails or win gift certiicates for forwarding e-mails you will believe this one too. If I were a soldier and were ignored by a presidential candidate I would tap on the nearest reporters shoulder, not type an e-mail. This is bogus.
Thanks to all our troops fighting for our Country!!!
Good points Mook and Mental Mist — it’s always good to hear from you. Yack, we all know you’re not of the chain email ilk.
efarstan and Lisa — you seem to be care more about rumors and propaganda than any real facts, so there’s not a lot to work with there. The whole “spitting on Vets” thing is old, debunked material. Claiming Obama won’t hold his hand over his heart and say the pledge is BS that won’t wash at this site.
And what in the world is wrong with talking with Iran? Its populace is the most pro-Western populace in the Middle East outside of Israel. Every foreign policy wonk in the country says we should at least talk to them except neo-cons. And neo-cons have been wrong about EVERY SINGLE FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE thus far. Why should we believe them now about Iran?
Finally, Obama didn’t make a blanket statement about bombing Pakistan. He said he would only target a known Al-Qaeda camp. It was a hypothetical. Aren’t you revealing a double standard considering you probably supported Bush’s invasion of an entire country (Iraq) that had nothing to do with terrorism?
douglas — I realize that the video is a compilation of shots taken from Obama’s entire Mideast trip. But remember, the DOD carefully orchestrated this trip for security reasons, e.g., no American journalists were allowed. So how do we know that at Bagram, he wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone by the general, and then move on to the next stop? Even then, he clearly was talking with the troops in the gym, which the email writer claims was a way to avoid the troops and get a photo-op. Well, it was a DOD photo-op then b/c that’s who shot the footage.
The point is one soldier purportedly sends an email about one stop on a multinational trip and it gets spread around like it’s proof positive that Obama hates the troops, hates America, etc. It’s ridiculous. But I do appreciate your measured response. That’s what civil, fruitful debate is supposed to be about and I appreciate the comment.
you don’t have to believe this although it could be true, but you can also listen to Andrea Mitchell who stated the Obama interviews were fake and the only video released are Obama approved clips…
there are plenty of lies from obama…
that latest that he stated unequivocally he was on the banking committee – he is not…pretty blatant lie
he lied about how his parents conceived him, he’s lying about his birth certificate and his campaign posted a fake document, he said he wouldn’t run for president, he said he helped his district which is seeing record crime and residents hate him…these are just a few…the list is too long
he said al qaeda wasn’t in iraq prior to the war…but the 9-11 report states that is incorrect and it was written by an obama supporter and democrat
the guy is full of lies and now he is campaigning around the world and ignoring America so it’s no surprise he’d ignore the troops abroad
creeping — your words alone reveal enough, but I can’t help but ask — because this was DOD footage, how could the Obama campaign be in charge of what got released? Was McCain lying when he said “Iraq” and Lieberman had to correct him and say it was “Iran” that was the subject? Was McCain lying when he said the Anbar Awakening occurred AFTER the surge when, in fact, it occurred FOUR MONTHS before? If so, I guess you’ll be voting for Bob Barr or Ralph Nader.
A vote for Obama is a vote against our troops. My son is on his second tour in Iraq. They are making progress. Obama does not have a clue about anything when it comes to military and the safety of our country. His show in Germany yesterday was a joke. He thinks he is the President or maybe God?
So how are the opinion polls doing? Who’s winning so far? I have made a poll on my blog. Feel free to visit it.
Desperate people do desperate acts. Obama will make it through the BS of fear…the world sees the change why can’t we as Americans know that communication is the way and bullying is for losers? (Old, white, woman–who feels and knows the change is here and appreciates the feeling)
Replacing the American flag on your airplane with your own personal logo – before you venture on a worldwide campaign tour is enough to signal his lack of patriotism…
as many times as he put down America in his speech in Hitler’s piazza, it should be quite clear where he stands…he wants to socialize America, socialism and black theology will make his wife finally proud of America…
the 9-11 report states AQ and Iraq had agreements to work together prior to 9-11 and Iran is holding AQ leaders in country as well as funding and training AQ insurgents in Iraq…McCain was 100% correct with his statement…listen to the generals who say the same thing…in fact they caught an Iranian special ops in Iraq recently…
Everyone knows Obama lies with the best, and he does it consistently…the sad part is so many people accept his lies…a precedent set by Bill Clinton…
Did those soldiers that died, die in vain. Maybe if the country truly appreciated what these men and women are doing, they would think a little harder on the best candidate for President. America has forgotten 9/11. That is too bad..because after Obama, if Obama gets the Presidency..you will see a attack on the US worse tha 9/11. So take your pick, freedom in the US..or future attacks. It is your choice? Don’t forget our soldiers!
creeping, you can continue your propaganda as long as you like. I don’t moderate comments on here. It’s a free fire zone, but don’t expect any further response from me if you’re one of those people who believe (1) Iraq and Al-Qaeda attacking us were connected and (2) McCain was right when he said the Anbar Awakening occurred after the surge.
By the way, your own president doesn’t believe Iraq had anything to do with 9-11. He says so during a press conference at minute 1:16.
Take care of yourself.
Does anyone really know. You guys make me crazy? Have you fought in a war. While we are debating, our troops are in 119 degree weather. If we don’t pay attention..we will be attacked. Don’t forget that Iran is just waiting for us to pull our troops out so it can take over the Middle East. Don’t forget about our ties with Israel? Many things to think about while Obama is playing God in Germany!!!!!
Madmom — how many soldiers and Iraqi civilians is Bush responsible for killing by starting the Iraqi war — a war that has done nothing but strengthen Al-Qaeda, strengthen Iran, hurt Israel, and create more animosity toward the U.S., thus breeding even more terrorism?
And who put those troops in the 119 degree heat? Bush. We were right to go into Afghanistan, but Bush screwed the whole thing up by going into Iraq. Now he doesn’t even “think about Osama bin Laden that much.”
Respectfully, I think your hatred of Obama is clouding your judgment and objectivity. Obama thinks he’s God?? I thought he was a closet Muslim. No, wait, he’s the nutty black liberation Christian. I can’t get my neo-con hate speech straight. It seems to change on a weekly basis.
You take care as well.
Supercynic,
Look, I don’t like Bush but I respect and appreciate our troops. I don’t have a hatred for Obama..I don’t like the guy.
He is inexperienced and wishy-washy. Have you been to war? I didn’t like my son having to go to war..but guess what, he is there. How do you know they are not thinking about Osama bin laden? Do you have the inside scoop? Let me know….
I think you need to speak to our troops.
Oh. I truly don’t care what religion Obama is or any other candidate. That is their business. Obama is not the person I want balancing my checkbook!
What a joke. If we are white and we don’t like Obama we are a racist. If we are black and don’t like Obama we are jealous.
Take care and have a great weekend!
Madmom — you have a son at war. My dad served in Korea and Vietnam, so the idea of what war means is not a foreign concept to either of us. Nobody disrespects the troops. Everybody appreciates the troops. But Bush does not equal the troops. Being critical of Bush is not being critical of the troops.
Let’s assume that Obama is a conniving, lying politician. Do you think he would snub the troops? That would be the dumbest political move of all, and that’s what started this whole discussion — that Obama hates the troops. It’s pure nonsense.
Obama is for a balanced budget and would require such, so I’m not worried about him and my checkbook. In fact, if you make less than $250k a year, your taxes will decrease under Obama.
Because I don’t get paid to maintain this site, I really have to get back to work. I’ll never convince you to vote for Obama, you’ll never get me to vote for McCain. All I ask is that we keep the debate limited to facts and not BS chain emails. Thanks for commenting and please continue to do so. There are lots of other political (and other subject areas) posts on here.
Where/when in the world did race get brought into this, besides by you?
So … George H. W. Bush is an enemy of the USA, then, because he first issued the executive order prohibiting drilling that George W. Bush just lifted?
That’s odd, because the copy I have says otherwise, on pages 334 through 337. Could you kindly point me at where the report contradicts itself?
As for some of the rest …
Now, if we look at Pakistan instead, they’re not our friends. The dictator of Pakistan will make the right noises as long as we pay him to, but that’s a different thing entirely. The odds are fairly high that Osama bin Laden is hiding out in Pakistan, along the border with Afghanistan. That’s the route that nearly all of the support for the Taliban is taking into Afghanistan as well. I’m not about to debate the practicality or morality of scaling up from using Predator drones to bombing Al-Qaida bases in Pakistan, but any supposed friendship on the part of the government of Pakistan is a mirage. You do know what country sold atomic bomb technology and materials to North Korea and Iran, right?
Talking to our enemies? That’s what a smart leader does. Remember Richard Nixon going to China? Y’know, the same Red China that was (and is) the world’s largest Communist country? Or Ronald Reagan (like many presidents before him) meeting with the leaders of the Soviet Union, the country that had thousands of nuclear warheads targeted on the US? Communication isn’t a reward you hand out to people who obey you. It’s an essential part of dealing with anyone, friend or enemy, because if you don’t talk to them about what’s going on between you, someone else — most likely someone else does not have your best interests in mind — certainly will.
No, I’m not an Obama supporter. I am a truth supporter. The decision between the two major candidates should be made on the basis of the truth, on facts, not rumors, innuendos, lies, or chain emails. When someone resorts to twisting the truth to sell their product or cut sales of a competitor’s product — whether it’s a potato chip or a politician — my instinctive reaction is to assume their product is junk. If it wasn’t, why would they have to lie about it? That’s something the all political candidates really need to think about. If you or your supporters spread unfounded rumors that your opponent kicks puppies, that’s more likely to make me vote for him than for you. I will vote for an honest candidate that I disagree with long before I’ll vote for a liar no matter what he says.
And you back there, I can see your fingers twitching on the keyboard from here. No, don’t start telling me how your preferred candidate is the honest one and the other guy is the liar. They’re all lying or weaseling or “interpreting the truth.” They’re lying because it works. They’re spreading rumors because it works. They’re campaigning on image and innuendo and things they’d never stand up and say to the citizens because it works. And until the voters make it not work anymore, they’re going to keep right on doing it.
Money is the scourge of politics because it buys us.
Lies are the scourge of politics because they convince us.
Flip-flopping, identity politics, bowing to the pressure groups, and all the rest, they’re all scourges of politics because they work on us.
The common factor is us. When are we going to stop being fools?
The American media, communists and I believe extraterrestrial liberal influences seeking to overrun our planet with free health care have distorted and revised my original email. Following you will find the TRUE original version:
——————————————–
Hello everyone,
As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan for about an hour on his visit to ‘The War Zone’. I wanted to share with you what happened.
He got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area to meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at Bagram. As the Soldiers where lined up to shake his hand he blew his nose on their uniform and didn’t say a word as he went pee right on the General feet. As he finished, the vehicles took him to the local ClamShell (pretty much a big brothel that locals utilize) so he could take his pictures fraternizing with the local anti-American insurgent supporting women.
He again shunned the opportunity to be near any American Soldiers, some of whom were mortally wounded and in need of first aid, but decided instead to put on his full
Muslim cleric garb and preach a fiery sermon (in Aramaic) in which he called America the “Great Satan”. Then with one hand he raised up his new Al Qaeda membership card to the chanting and gyrating crowd of Jihadists, and with the other lit on fire a American flag he had stuffed in his pocket and been using as a handkerchief.
So really he was just here to make a showing for the radial Anti-American’s here in Afghanistan and laugh at how naive American’s are for letting him be their candidate for President. I think
that if you are going to make an effort to come all the way over here you would thank those that are providing the freedom that they are providing for you instead of throwing Molotov cocktails at passing Humvee’s as he did that afternoon.
I swear we got more thanks from the NBA Basketball Players, the Dallas Cowboy Cheer leaders, than from one of the Senators, (who by the way continually kept shouting “hey” or “look over there” while our battle-worn soldiers were trying to aim their M-16’s at anti-American insurgents) wants to be the President of the United States.
I just don’t understand how anyone would want him to be our Commander-and-Chief given that he wants to disband our military and provide social security and streamlined immigration to all people of radical Muslim persuasion. It was almost that he was scared to be around people like me who provide unbiased true accounts of him to our great country.
If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry but I wanted you all to know what kind of caliber of person he really is. What you see in the news is all fake. If it weren’t for discerning common-sense people like yourself who believe the true accounts I and my associates provide, this whole country would be completely fooled.
In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. Porter
Battle Captain
TF Wasatch
American Soldier
Neither I or my wife are likely to vote for Obama. However, both of us have been offended by the purveying of this crap by certain of our technologically naive relatives and acquantainces. My wife has has been so bugged that she’s just started replying with links to Snopes web pages that call bullshit. WTF is a “Battle Captain” anyway? It sounds like a rank in Paintball or maybe Laser Tag. I’ve head of captains who’ve been in battle but never a “Battle Captain.”
This has been rebunked:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp
By James Gordon Meek
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Thursday, July 24th 2008, 6:40 PM
WASHINGTON – The latest chain e-mail smear against Barack Obama: He “blew off” troops at an Afghan base to shoot hoops for a publicity photo.
The letter was apparently written by a Utah Army National Guard intelligence officer in a linguist unit at Bagram Airfield who claimed the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee was rude to G.I.s.
“As the soldiers where [sic] lined up to shake his hand he blew them off,” wrote the Task Force Wasatch “battle captain.”
But angry Army brass debunked the Obama-bashing soldier’s allegations, which went viral Thursday over the Web and on military blogs such as Blackfive.
The e-mail claims Obama repeatedly shunned soldiers on his way to the Clamshell – a recreation tent – to “take his publicity pictures playing basketball.”
“These comments are inappropriate and factually incorrect,” said Bagram spokesman Army Lt. Col. Rumi Nielson-Green, who added that such political commentary is barred for uniformed personnel.
Obama didn’t play basketball at Bagram or visit the Clamshell, he said. Home-state troops were invited to meet him, but his arrival was kept secret for security reasons.
“We were a bit delayed … as he took time to shake hands, speak to troops and pose for photographs,” Nielson-Green said.
E-mails to the officer who made the charges and a call to his wife were not returned.
Wanderer, thanks for improving on my post. Those are all good comments. I like the email address you left for me as well.
Cpt. Porter — so nice of you to show up, and I appreciate the “accurate” version of your email (and email address). Isn’t it true that Michelle Obama also beat your wife senseless a week ago while screaming maniacally, “America is the Great Satan”? That’s what I read in an email anyway. And everything in chain emails is true. Of course, I’m still waiting on that heir to the throne of Mozambique/Nigeria/Uganda/Malaysia/Sumatra to send me my $30/80/120/19/63 million.
Larue65, you crack me up as always, and I will see you in about a month.
Donald, thanks for the updated Snopes article. I can now die knowing that I beat Snopes to something.
I’m sorry, but the only thing that passed through my mind while reading this post is: What the heck is a battle captain?
I think the whole chain-mail smear thing has gone too far. Seriously. And I haven’t seen any McCain mails yet. Maybe I need to read more political blogs. -.-
I’ve commented to others that you don’t see any McCain chain emails circulating. I have a feeling one may soon show up as a post on here.
A word for madmom: consider that your son might not have had to serve a 1st/2nd term in Iraq had it not been for George Bush/people whose gunho cowboyish misconception of reality caused the lives of thousands of sons, daughters, husbands and fathers!! I only hope that mothers like you wake up and realize that John Mccain is simply a clone of our present president! Enough of this political rhetoric…Time for change, people… Lives are at stake…. America is at stake!
Supercynic;
If you think you will pay less taxes under the Big “O” regime, you are smokin something that I’d like to try too.
grumpajoe, go here and you’ll see the facts that I’m smoking. Once you’ve looked at the numbers feel free to come on back and say, “Dang, looking at actual facts versus propaganda was enlightening.”
clara54, you said, “John McCain is simply a clone of our present president.” You’re right, and that’s sad. He didn’t used to be that way, but I think another 4 years of the current policies would be disastrous.
Battle Captain? Never heard of one.
My step brother was a Captain ~ U.S. Army 1 tour in The Stan, a good friend of mine also a Captain ~ U.S. Army 2 tours in The Sandbox. Never once have I heard anyone reference a Ranking with the prefix “Battle”. Not from my Stepfather, U.S.N. retired, not from my Grandfather ~ Army Air Corp and the Air Force, Not from my other Grandfather U.S. Army.
Now, In terms of phreaking out over Obama.
Taxes:
Unless you are in the Top 14% that got the 64% of the Bush Tax cuts, you didn’t really get a tax cut. What we got was a token amount that was converted to Oil Company revenue by means of the ever increasing price of gas. Add to that, our staggering National Debt and the de-valued Dollar due to our screwed fiscal policies,…. for the majority of us there is no such thing as a tax cut.
If Obama raises taxes to pay off National Debt so that China doesn’t end up owning us, then so be it. Everyone wants to dance, but no one wants to pay the piper. If we want to fight wars abroad, sell War Bonds! Don’t borrow from nations we have massive trade imbalances with.
Patriotism
Patriotism means that you support your country always and your government/elected officials only when they deserve it. Patriotism is not a flag lapel-pin.
Supporting our troops
The best way to suport our troops is to make sure that they aren’t sent to fight pointless wars. Iraq is a pointless comedy of errors that started with the “Axis of Evil” speech in 02. We left Bin Laden in Afghanistan to tilt at windmills in Iraq and then we completely screwed up in Iraq because the Neo Cons in charge were completely incompetant and that is putting it politely.
Here is one of my favorite quotes regarding the post invasion period in Iraq and it pretty much sums up the abject stupidity… not by our troops, but by the politicians who put htem in harms way.
I never in my life thought I would encounter the terms “Frat Brothers” and “Strategic Planners in the same sentence.” Col Thomas Hammons ~ Counter Insurgency Advisor to the CPA – Iraq
This came about from his conversation with the Strategic Planner for Prisons and Police, a 25 year old on his first job out of college whose staff consisted of 4 of his frat brothers from college.
I could write a complete disertation on this but it is late and I am tired.
/Regards
douglas — I realize that the video is a compilation of shots taken from Obama’s entire Mideast trip. But remember, the DOD carefully orchestrated this trip for security reasons, e.g., no American journalists were allowed.
Incorrect. Media were not allowed because that leg of the trip was classified as a congressional delegation trip (codel). As such, it is treated differently than a campaign trip- no open media, no campaign staff. Congressional staff and security only. Those are just the standing rules.
As for the video, if you go to this link you’ll see the DOD pics from the military base that this emailer was posted at and was relaying information from. You’ll see that the ‘breakfast’ Obama had there was with about 10 personnel. From accounts, likely all Illinois residents, or base officers required to be there.
So how do we know that at Bagram, he wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone by the general, and then move on to the next stop?
We don’t, however, in comparison to other visits from elected officials, it would seem unusual. One would have to wonder why.
Even then, he clearly was talking with the troops in the gym, which the email writer claims was a way to avoid the troops and get a photo-op.
The Gym photo/video was from Iraq, or was it Kuwait? Not Afghanistan. The reference to b-ball in this email was a supposition, not a factual statement or eyewitness account, playing off of the now famous 3 pointer footage.
Well, it was a DOD photo-op then b/c that’s who shot the footage.
Again, CODEL, not campaign stop, as discussed above.
The point is one soldier purportedly sends an email about one stop on a multinational trip and it gets spread around like it’s proof positive that Obama hates the troops, hates America, etc. It’s ridiculous.
Fair enough. I see it as fitting a pattern of an underlying lack of respect for those who’ve chosen to serve in the military, but you’re right in the regard that it is only one soldiers opinion, and should be taken as such.
I can point you to another corroborating email posted at blackfive.
I’ll also add that Obama’s change of heart on meeting with wounded troops at Landstuhl didn’t help to make this less believable.
I think the truth of the matter is that the email is one man’s view- accurate as such, and may or may not extend across the board. I also think Obama isn’t as popular with the majority of the troops as Bush or McCain would be, and he knows it, and so he (reasonably) does his visits differently. I can understand it, even if I don’t particularly respect it. If you’re lobbying to be hired as the new boss to these men and women that will be at your command with their lives in the balance, I’m not sure you deserve the post. They need a leader, not a public image manager.
But I do appreciate your measured response. That’s what civil, fruitful debate is supposed to be about and I appreciate the comment.
Glad to oblige, and to find a willing and honorable forum for disagreement.
Douglas — First, thanks for your follow up comment. Second, your first paragraph, to me, is a distinction without a difference. The point is the Mideast trip was not an Obama campaign event. The video was not shot by an Obama campaign intern, but by the DOD.
As for everything else, here’s all I can say that I haven’t already said: if a person feels the need to analyze this trip to try to find something to be critical of Obama about, then they don’t really have any substantive issues to hang onto. Obama gets berated by neo-cons and conservatives in general for being so slick of a politician. Well, if that’s true, snubbing the troops would be a colossally stupid thing to do for such a slick politician. Further, who is more supportive of the troops, the one who puts them into a senseless war, or the one who allows them to live in peace but be ready to defend our nation? I think the latter, which is stated much more eloquently by JL above.
douglas, I think we’ve aired out the Obama trip pretty well on these pages. Let’s move on to some substantive stuff. Well, that and the fake chain email of lies I’m going to later write about McCain. Hope to see you back.
JL — all I can say is well done as always.
democrats spitting on our vets
see from 6 minutes on
supercynic…..get ALL the information..before you speak..it saves us all a lot of time
efarstan, please look up the word “facts.” That video shows some eclectic group of folks protesting Bush. None of them claims to be Democrats. The person who got spat on was being an annoying pain in the rear, getting up in people’s faces, and one of the folks spat on him. Then he claims he’s a war veteran. So, an obnoxious, agitating allegedly war veteran got spat on by some equally looking obnoxious person. From that you get: “Democrats spitting on our vets.”
That’s just plain laughable. And what does it have to do with lying chain emails about Obama anyway?
How come no one seems to be focusing on Tiffany’s role in all of this? How, on earth, does a mother of six suddenly decide to zip this email off to her entire mailing list?
Odds are pretty good that this is not the first viral email that has passed through her inbox and spread further afield.
I am still trying to figure out the mindset of people like this. What sort of values is she instilling in her children?
Although her actions do not seem particularly Christian, I pray for her and her family this Sunday.
Lisa74, you’ve hit the nail on the head in terms of questions that need to be asked about our fellow citizens. I have a relative — who is an adult, not mentally incapacitated, and otherwise normal — who thinks Obama may be a “closet Muslim.” I simply stand in awe at what some people think and do. One might not like his tax policy or his approach to foreign affairs, but a “closet Muslim”?????
I’m glad you prayed for them. We all need to pray for them, for us, for this country, and for this world. It seems like as a world we’re getting better in some areas and worse in others. I don’t know which side is going to win.
supercynic
words ring clear as a bell
my first time here and already I can tell
true discussion clarity and thought-provoking info
knowledge and wisdom
and this is just the intro…
I like your style, supercynic. I could never remain so calm in the face of such mind-numbing ignorance. I know I can be bossy and domineering in my day to day (I am a teacher; that’s a whole ‘nother discussion) but I know that “a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
So kudos, to you, and please don’t stop
what you’re doin’
cause silly season’s BEEN here
and the storms they are a-brewing
just fight the good fight against the silliness and lies
and our country will transform ITSELF
right before our very eyes…
Peace one love
BIG UP TO ALL THE TROOPS!! BIG UP TO THE CANDIDATES!! MAY THE BEST MAN FOR OUR COUNTRY AND OUR CHILDREN”S FUTURE WIN!!
consciousempress
consciousempress — you’ve now made my week complete. Not only did I outscoop snopes.com (eventhough they eventually provided much better info, but they get paid to do it), but now I’ve got a poem, and/or rap depending on how you read it, written, in part, about me. Thank you, and by all means, keep them coming.
Supercynic; Don’t believe a word of the tax thing. Accountants can make numbers work anyway they want. The bottom line is this, I will willingly pay taxes to reduce the debt. If you want to raise my taxes to give away more free programs, “GO FLY A KITE!!!!!!” The BIG-O will most likely give it all laway and add to the debt too.
it was a rap…but rap is poetry…Ill be back to visit!!
peace one love
grumpa — The tax numbers are not made up by Obama accountants. They’re from the Tax Policy Center or some such name that I’m too lazy to go look up. Also, you can go to AARP’s website and see pretty much the same numbers.
Finally, a president can only propose tax increases and a budget. Congress has to approve it, so neither Obama’s nor McCain’s tax plans would get approved in their totality.
Guess which president last balanced the budget? Clinton. A Democrat. So, let’s not think Obama is going to be fiscally irresponsible (like Bush) just because he’s a Democrat. In fact, please stay in touch and let’s see where we stand after the election. I predict a McCain victory will mean continued deficits and an Obama victory will equal reduced deficits and hopefully a balanced budget. Just like you, I don’t want to send to Washington a dime more than I have to.
There. It’s in black and white. If I’m found to be wrong, you can stick it in my face.
consciousempress — Peace. One. Love. These are concepts we should all be constantly reminded of. I appreciate your contributions.
Regards CPT Jeffrey S Porter
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/afghanistan.htm
Regards McCains ad concerning Obama not going to Landstuhl.
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/07/why-didnt-mccai.html
Hey if any of you are kidding yourself and believe that either of the candidates/political groups that we have to choose from will not lie, cheat, and misrepresent all information to win the election, then you are kidding your self. I voted for Bush both times, but not because I thought he would do anything. I was voting against a candidate that I felt had less moral fiber. After Clinton we needed some moral fiber in our leadership.
But lets face it, the lobbyist have been and are running this country, and that will not change.
pilgrim — I agree with everything you say –especially your last sentence — but I can’t get my head around how Bush equates to moral fiber.
supercynic- I too agree with Pilgrim, I would tend to think that it is not so much that Bush equates to moral fiber but that those who ran against him equated so much to everything that is opposite of moral fiber. It is true that Bush has problems but the bottom line is that he has at least on the surface tried to appear moral and to impress moral ideas into legislation. I think the same can be said for the current candidates in the upcomming election. The decision may not be to vote for the “moral” canditate but rather to vote for the “less immorral” candidate. Then all we have to do is THROW OUT THE LOBBYISTS!
Dear Friends, Happy Fool’s Day!
After just a few years of marriage, filled with constant arguments, a young man and his wife decided the only way to save their marriage was to try counseling. They had been at each other’s throat for some time and felt that this was their last straw. When they arrived at the counselor’s office, the counselor jumped right in and opened the floor for discussion.
“What seems to be the problem?”
Immediately, the husband held his long face down without anything to say. On the other hand, the wife began talking 90 miles an hour describing all the wrongs within their marriage. After 5 – 10 – 15 minutes of listening to the wife, the counselor went over to her, picked her up by her shoulders, kissed her passionately for several minutes, and sat her back down. Afterwards, the wife sat there speechless.
He looked over at the husband who was staring in disbelief at what had happened. The counselor spoke to the husband, “Your wife NEEDS that at least twice a week!”
The husband scratched his head and replied, “I can have her here on Tuesdays and Thursdays.”
Happy April Fool’s Day!